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Where do you think I was today? I stood straight in front of him (Himmler) for a whole hour and talked, and he... he played with a puzzle the whole time - you know, this glass cube with three balls on the inside... When I finished, he took off his pince-nez, wiped it with a handkerchief - he has a skull even on his handkerchief - and said, 'Listen, Ernst! Have you by any chance, ever had a dream, where you're riding in the back of a ragged truck to who knows where, and some monsters are sitting around you?' I didn't say anything. Then he smiled and said, 'Ernst, you know, I know as well as you that no astral exists. But what do you think, if you, and even Canaris, have your own people in 'Annenerbe', shouldn't I have my own people there as well?' I did not understand what he meant. 'Think Ernst, think!' he said. I kept silent. Then he smiled and asked, 'Whose man do you think is Kroger?' ...Yes, Emma... It seems I'm too simple for all these intrigues... But I know that while the Fuhrer needs me, my heart will keep beating...You know, Emma... Sometimes it seems to me, that it's not me who is alive, but it's the Fuhrer who is living inside me...

Ernst Kaltenbrunner#23

PowerConspiracySecrecyTension

About this quote

What does it mean?
Kaltenbrunner recounts a surreal conversation with Himmler hinting at hidden agendas and spies.
In plain terms
Himmler spoke vaguely about dreams and spies during a tense meeting.
What can you take from it?
Vague conversations among leaders often hint at serious hidden conflicts.

Where it applies

  • interrogation
  • internal conflict
  • strategic meetings

Putting it to work

  • decode vague language
  • monitor alliances
  • assess threats

Questions to consider

  • What do cryptic messages between leaders mean?
  • How much can be read into silence?

Another view

Stories of surreal dialogue may be exaggerated or interpreted through hindsight.

More from Ernst Kaltenbrunner

  1. Ich bekenne mich nicht schuldig. (I do not believe that I have made myself guilty.)

    Permalink to quote #22
  2. The Prosecution holds me responsible for the concentration camps, for the destruction of Jewish life, for Einsatzgruppen and other things. All of this is neith…

    Permalink to quote #24
  3. (While playing solitaire and sipping cognac) It's all a lot of crap. The game is up.

    Permalink to quote #21

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